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I
welcome to Sputnik With Me George
Galloway and me gri the plight of the
chos Islanders long championed by the
labor leader Jeremy Corbin incidentally
has been showcased on the Sputnik
previously via Ben Vogel and its
president Alan vinin but we just can't
stay away from the Indian Ocean Paradise
whose population was ethnically cleansed
to the last man woman and child by a
British labor government so that the US
could have a military base there in
recent times despite another labor
foreign secretary's denial it has even
been used at the very least as a staging
post to the chal house of the war on
terror on Wednesday thanks to our first
guest and his party the SNP the British
Parliament will be forced to confront
the issue again the Scottish national
party have secured a debate on the issue
which everyone should follow closely
that man is Dr Paul Monahan MP for half
of the Scottish Highlands Dr Paul thanks
for joining us just for those uh viewers
who don't actually know what happened to
the people of the chos briefly describe
it please oh I'll try to it's a it's a
long and interesting story it goes back
to the mid-60s uh just before the uh the
Cal islands and mishas were made
independent the UK government annexed
the chos islands and uh forcibly
expelled the inhabitants from those
islands most of them moved to Marius
some of them came to the UK um the sad
aspect is that their human rights
weren't recognized in that process of
expulsion and uh they were persuaded to
expel them on the basis that they were
contract laborers that's how they
explained it to the world against um
against the facts really uh I think it's
a d indictment that the UK government
persuaded the UK Parliament that these
people were not indigenous peoples it
was a labor government too by the way it
was Harold Wilson who authorized the
expulsion indeed and they also persuaded
the UN that they weren't indigenous
peoples either so um a real breach of
Human Rights and that fundamentally I
think is the issue and the people have
never accepted it the people of chos the
chians have never accepted it and why
should they uh I think they're quite
right to fight for their cause quite
right to fight for their islands and
quite right to fight for the right to
return there and reestablish themselves
as a viable Community now the uh
Parliament uh is debating it thanks to
you and your party the SNP
congratulations on that on Wednesday uh
what's going to be said as it were from
your front bench and what's the
government likely to reply I think uh I
I should say first of all that it's not
just about the asmp I'm taking this
forward under the offices of the all
party parliamentary group on the chos
islands that's one of the few allp party
parliamentary groups in the UK in the UK
Parliament that has full cross-party
representation so it's not just asmp it
is every single political party at uh
Westminster what we want to do on
Wednesday uh at the Westminster Hall
debate is um Force the UK government
through the minister for the foreign
office to come to the table to answer
the questions about what is happening
with the chos Islanders and there are a
number of specific issues that we want
to highlight and discuss perhaps Chief
among them is the fact that next year
2016 the UK government will be
renegotiating the lease of Diego Garcia
which is the military base uh in the
Indian ter Indian uh Oceanic territory
that is leased uh by the UK to the
American government so that lease is
going to be getting
renegotiated that I think prompts a
debate about resettlement of the islands
and under what terms that lease might be
renewed uh so it's also the case that um
uh imminently the Supreme Court in the
UK will be making a judgment on the
right of the chians to return to the
Ireland that's imminent as I say it's
looking very likely that the UK Supreme
Court will rule in favor of the chians
and again that will force the UK
government's hand in terms of
implementing a program of resettlement
it's almost surreal uh that uh Harold
Wilson whom I must say great admired uh
would have done such a thing to please
the United States if you take a proper
look at the history of this whole
debacle um it seems that uh the UK
government at the time under Harold
Wilson's leadership was put under
significant pressure to engage with uh
the US government and there is some
suggestion that uh in leasing uh the
chos islands to the UK government to the
US government sorry that um the UK
received a discount on nuclear weapons
at the time that's certainly been said
uh another theory I have is that Wilson
was refusing us uh um requests to join
the war in Vietnam and to support the
Americans in the war in Vietnam Wilson
resisted that and some say that his
flexibility towards the US on the chos
islands was in a sense a quid Broku
either way it's entirely shameful
not sure which of these two would be the
most uh shameful and it's time for the
British government to to do the right
thing isn't it I mean far from being
contract laborers uh these were an
indigenous people and Ben Fogle sitting
exactly where you are now describe to us
how their houses are still there I mean
practically the salt and pepper still on
their uh their tables they were
literally ethnically cleansed and in
addition to that the the phenomenon of
Rich jet Setters who can afford to visit
these islands these remote Islands they
p in uh in the chos and and instead of
putting their tents up or sleeping on
board the yacht they sleep in the houses
of the chians who've been uh been Chas
away that must be a big insult for the
josian both in maius and those residing
here yeah I think you ABS I think the
chians have been insulted many times
over the last 50 years uh as George says
it is absolutely at the point now where
the UK mention should be accepting
responsibility for the uh the uh the
actions of previous UK governments and
starting to put things right we're at
that pivotal point now I think where
there are several aspects coming
together that suggest that the time is
now appropriate to be discharging fully
the uh the human rights of the chians
and uh uh facilitating a viable
resettlement on those islands uh for the
for the people and their future well I
tell you what we agreed with Ben Fogle
the famous television personality and
very big on this issue we agreed on our
show that if the British government
doesn't do the right thing at this pivot
this 2016 pivot we're going to get
ourselves somehow a big beautiful boat
with white sales and we're all going to
get on S out there and we're going to
sail out there with the chosan people
and uh and take it back who's going to
shoot us down well well nobody I think
because they are actually British yeah
they've got
their they are UK citizens absolutely
you're quite right and I think you know
you're talking about the yachting
industry it's entirely unregulated if
you've got enough money you can go to
the chos islands um so you know the
suggestion that the chos islands can't
be or shouldn't be used for visitors or
tourism things like that I mean it's
just for environmental reasons it's a
policy yes that was another of the
canards more recently drawn out that uh
oh we can't have people there because
it's a sanctuary for all kinds of
Wildlife and and uh flora and uh and for
never mind the people who are stuck in
Crawley under the flight path of the
airplanes in uh in Gatwick um how are
you finding you come from the third
sector how are you finding your time in
Parliament uh it's probably quite a
cultural shock uh coming into what is
the oldest and and best club in London
as they say uh I think the UK Parliament
is an interesting place you were
obviously there for many many years it's
not somewhere that I feel particularly
comfortable to be honest I think um you
know as a a Scottish national party
Member of Parliament you know we clearly
have an objective which is to make the
voice of Scotland heard in that place
it's uh to make sure that the people of
Scotland have access to Equitable and
fair policies that clearly spills over
into other peoples not least the chos
islands so I think you know um the
plight of the chians is very much uh
something that's in my mind mind and
several of my colleagues um not least
because it links back to some aspects of
the history of my particular
constituency which is Ki n Southern
London Easter Ross which was the area uh
where we uh cleed we we were cleansed
abs for cleans for sheep during the
cences absolutely I made mention of my
uh made mention of that in my maiden
speech I linked it to the
josian interestingly that prompted uh
quite a lot of correspondence from
academic around the world who had been
doing research on the chians and their
right to return to their Islands um and
I was very pleased to receive all of
that corresponds I think that what that
shows is that you know uh we're not
dealing with some secret here we are
dealing with an issue that is um
renowned it's obvious uh it reflects
very badly on the UK government people
know that it reflects very badly in the
UK government it stands in stark
contrast to everything that we hear hear
them say about the importance of Human
Rights particularly at this time when
they are and they have been for many
years it completely overriding and
ignoring the human rights of the people
from these islands well I know that you
know you're a you're a a
highly intelligent and educated man but
the longer you sit in the British
Parliament the more you'll realize that
what they say and what they do are two
entirely absolutely different things Dr
Paul thanks for coming on board thank
you thank you coming up next they laid
out the red carpet for this week's
visitor and even the white side and
Tails China stay
tuned welcome back to Sputnik Wild
Horses couldn't have got Jeremy Corbin
into a white tie and Tails but the state
banquet held by the queen for president
xiin ping of the People's Republic of
China did the visit was a great success
despite some Noises Off it seemed to
open a bridge rare indeed between
Britain and the US and finally brought
Mr Corbin face to face with her majesty
not bad for a few days work joining us
now to discuss its significance is our
resident China expert Keith Bennett
Keith thanks for coming back on board
the Sputnik the visit seemed to have
been a great success we'll come to that
in a minute but much of the discourse of
the liberal media media was around the
issue of Human Rights and Simon Jenkins
in the guardian uh Amplified by me I
think on Twitter uh raised the question
what if the Chinese had raised human
rights with us there's a tremendous
hypocrisy in the media on this question
no AB absolutely and uh I think it went
right through the the media if you
looked at the way ITN reported it on the
news at 10 the way the BBC uh phras
phrased its question uh uh to the
president and of course the China is not
the country that that's engaged in in
Wars around the world uh and and it
would indeed have a lot to say about
human rights in in Britain if it so
chose human rights in Britain and human
rights in the countries that Britain is
closest to Saudi Arabia for example
which is armed entirely now almost by
David Cameron by the British uh State
and a long line of uh of others equally
they gave amazing prominence certainly
on the BBC World which we were watching
CU we were out of the country ourselves
during it to demonstrations of a few
dozen people we can have a 100,000
people in Trafalgar Square and not make
the news Well a few dozen protesters on
Tibet or whatever uh were given endless
coverage in the British media yes and I
think that was in in stark contrast to
the way the government wanted to play
the the visit for whatever reason and it
was not and it was notable how much the
um the handful of protesters were
drowned out by the many hundreds and
indeed thousands of of Chinese people
and and some others who came along to
welcome uh president XI Jin ping of
course that was said to be uh an
organized um activity as opposed to the
other which was clearly presumably not
organized uh but even if it was even if
it was organized uh which it was like
like the overwhelming majority of
protests or or public events are it
nevertheless reflected the fact that um
Chinese people on the whole feel
extremely proud of their country and
what it's achieved the United States
media were indicating in some cases
explicitly that Britain appeared to be
taking a different line towards China uh
to that of the United States is there
anything in that I think that's very
clear if you look at the mood music that
the British government went to
considerable length to to put on for the
visit it was very different from the uh
the visit that shi jimping made to the
United States a few weeks ago where
Barack Obama was openly talking almost
before uh almost on the eve of XI
jinping's arrival about the possibility
of putting more sanctions on China over
so-called cyber warfare issues or or or
cyber cyber Espionage uh with Britain
there was with the British government
there was there was no such uh no such
policy I think the the breach or the
difference in approach was there for for
some time with for example if you take
the Chinese Telecom giant hwe who have
been systematically kept out of the US
market yet they've been welcomed with
open arms in Britain to have their
research and development center here
their European headquarters and so on
and the biggest sign of that was of
course when Britain uh became the first
major Western power to uh apply to
become a full member of the Asian the
Chinese Le Asian infrastructure
Investment Bank which in turn opened the
floodgates for a large number of other
Western countries including all of the
G7 Powers with the exception of uh the
United States and Canada and Japan and
Canada may of course well change its
mind now after the election there this
week do you think this breach is based
in anything other than money or is it uh
is it the money talking I think from the
point of view of the conservative
government it's the money talking
uh but I think that uh Britain has at
least since the end of the second world
war or perhaps you can say for most of
the 20th century uh punched above its
weight in in the international Arena now
it did that through a a basic uh
strategy of the so-called special
relationship uh that by clinging to the
coattails of the United States it it
would it would actually mask its
relative decline in in international
power and I'm sure there are some some
people in Britain who are looking at the
fact that relatively speaking the United
States is now a declining power China is
a rising power and some who would want
to
um uh to actually ride on those
coattails as well in economic terms
whilst Britain uh recognized the
People's Republic of China before the
United States did and uh and not
withstanding the enormous abscess of the
Hong Kong uh question has deed under
governments of both types in Britain to
uh not want the kind of confrontation
with China that many in the US the Hawks
especially in the US seem to want yeah
of course it was the Atley government
that opened the first diplomatic
relations at Consular level with the
People's Republic in back in 1950s
Britain was the first Western power to
open diplomatic relations with the with
the People's Republic ironically the
existence of Hong Kong impelled that
because the existence of Hong Kong meant
that we had to have some kind of
relationship with China whether we liked
it or
not indeed uh and so happy days between
Britain and China uh the United States
unhappy about it all of that sounds like
uh something to welcome did most people
most Progressive people welcome it or is
there still this residual resentment
about China which looks for issues Tibet
or uh the Fang the the how do you say it
the uh Phong Fong gong Chinese uh
repression of this cult and so on um are
these residual
irritations uh still holding back
Progressive people in Britain
identifying with China I think there's a
huge job still to be done to get
basically Progressive minded people in
Britain to to understand what what's
happening in China ironically I think
people like George Osborne um get it a
lot better than many Progressive people
because they're simply looking at it
from from an economic or you can say a
melist uh uh point of view uh there's a
great deal to be done I hope that Jeremy
Corbin's meeting with the with the
president has begun a process of of a of
a of a better dialogue uh between the
left in Britain and and the Chinese but
China like every country in the world
obviously has its problems but it also
has a very good story
uh to tell if people are on the left
they should be um they should care about
people being lifted out of poverty and
the Improvement of people's life chances
I think first and foremost China Has
Lifted well over half a billion people
out of poverty uh over the last three
decades uh you can't think about poverty
alleviation in today's world without
looking without looking at China uh a a
Chinese woman lives more than 10 years
longer than than an Indian woman these
are real human rights uh achievements
well parallel to this um what you
suggest continued negative image of
China more and more um for example
Chinese language is being offered at
schools as a third or even second
language indeed nurseries we are looking
ourselves at nurses that are providing
bilingual education to children as young
as two years
old yes and China itself has put a lot
of money into to not only confucious
institutes in in higher education but
confucious classrooms in schools uh and
even and even primary schools but I
think we've got a long a long way to to
go uh until we catch up with for example
Australia which has a much better record
on Chinese language teaching that that
we do and for that we also need to
improve the improve the teaching of
Chinese and Chinese studies in British
uh tertiary education because you can't
actually teach Chinese to children
unless you have the qualified teachers
and of course some of them can come to
come from China as well let's look at
the uh State visit then in more detail
uh what would you say were the primary
achievements of the visit well I think
the primary achievements are probably in
in the economy uh there's something like
uh 40 billion pounds worth of of
business and investment deals uh that uh
inward investment into Britain basically
yes uh and also the the Chinese currency
the renm be is becoming an increasingly
internationally traded and
internationally used currency although
of course still way behind the dollar
for now uh but Britain will be the main
center for the main external Center for
trading in in Chinese currency apart
from Hong Kong and Singapore the London
Metal Exchange has signed an agreement
uh to um where China will have more
influence on the pricing of of Comm
ities and so on well of course the day
will come I hope we both live long
enough to see it where China's political
weight in the world will be commensurate
with its economic weight already
established as the main economy the
biggest economy in the world its
military weight its geostrategic uh
weight uh China will begin to assert
itself a little more clearly in
political Affairs Russia which is of
course also a great power is now a big
factor in international Affairs nothing
can happen in the Middle East now for
example without Russian uh agreement
without engagement with Russia when do
you see that day coming well I think
it's Mark said once that there are there
are years in which nothing appears to
happen and then there are days into
which the events of years are compressed
and I think that's how we'll see China's
rise on on the international diplomatic
stage and it's already happening uh to
to a great extent I was in China last
week and there was something which I'm
guessing was not really reported in the
media here but they had an a they had a
conference of Asian political parties in
Beijing on what president xiin pink
calls the one belt one road initiative
this is to to create a new silk route to
tie in the economies of of China and
South Asia and Central Asia and uh
Russia and and through through to
Western Europe and had several hundred
delegates representing over 60 political
parties there uh major government
parties and major opposition parties
some of the delegations led by
presidents and prime ministers others by
past pres presidents and doubtless
future ones too that was immediately
followed by a global Summit on poverty
reduction which brought people out the
vice president of Bolivia the minister
for land reform of of South Africa so
China's having a hugely active uh
diplomatic presence it's not just the
state visit to the UK but basically none
of this is covered in the uh UK media
you mentioned Russia of course and I
think what's important is that there's a
certain division of labor between Russia
and China based on on their particular
interests and where exactly they find
themselves in the world but if you look
at the proceedings of the UN Security
Council basically the two the two
coordinate their positions on nearly all
the the major International uh events
and of course we saw with the two big
military parades first in in Moscow in
May and Beijing in September where you
had contingence of the armies of the two
countries marching in each other's
capitals something that's never happened
before fascinating Keith Bennett thank
you very
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much and now it's your turn to tell us
what you think through the portals of
social media what's rling G well I asked
um whether the queen was right to Red
Carpet uh the Chinese president and
Connor MC Jorge says the only thing they
are interested in is their money they
will turn a blind eye to their slave
trade in harsh ways akib Mahmud follows
saying red carpet our government is so
desperate for Chinese money I'm surpris
she didn't pole dance for him that's
that's a bit rude a bit lessy Majesty we
disassociate ourselves from that but
nonetheless as Keith Bennett very
clearly laid out
the motivations particularly of George
Osborne who is being particularly
farsighted in this regard interesting
overruling overriding the foreign office
and even David Cameron uh he realizes
that the sun is rising in the East and
setting in the west and if Britain wants
a future it has to have good relations
with the East it's a pity they haven't
caught up yet with the importance of
Russia well that's all that we've got
time for this we which alas means that's
the end of the show you can stay in
touch with us on Twitter at rtor Sputnik
and on Facebook Sputnik on Russia today
it's goodbye from me gatri and from me
George Galloway it's been marvelous
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